Interviewed spring 1997 at TOO PURE headquarters in Highbury, London

Through the years Too Pure has proven itself that it is one of the most important independent labels in the world. It was this label that introduced PJ Harvey and Stereolab to us. Next to these, who have by now become household names, Too Pure does its best to present us with new forms of popmusic that have something special. One by one Opscene has written about the bands in the Too Pure roster, and one by one we loved them, with maybe a few exceptions. Too Pure stands for quality. It was high time we gave the people behind the label and their thoughts and vision some attention. That’s why yours truly went to London for the weekend to do an interview with Richard Roberts and Paul Cox in one of the oldest buildings in Highbury.

Paul Cox still seems a bit wary about the whole thing. His best buddy and colleague Richard Roberts has decided to quit working for Too Pure. A few months ago he got married with the love of his life, a girl from Australia, and he’s planning emigrate soon. Paul: ‘I did see it coming, I was his best man at the wedding. Since then we talked about it a lot, because he wasn’t sure what he wanted to do. That’s why asked Nick, our man in America to come back, so he could take over Richard’s responsibilities.’ The decision to leave Too Pure must have been a real tough one. Richard and Paul have known each other for about eight years, they started together organizing concerts and festivals and that’s when Too Pure was born, in a spare room in the house. Paul: ‘Between Christmas and February he has thought long and hard about it and finally decided. It must have been really tough, because he knows I would never leave.’ Still Paul thinks that Richard can be of good use on the other side of the globe. Paul: ‘We have virtually no control over our market in Australia and Southeast-Asia. We do have a distributor in Australia and Japan, but it’s better to physically be there.’ It is an important change for Too Pure. Paul: ‘Marriage, the other side of the world, stop with Too Pure. Changes come often all at the same time and happen very quick. Richard wanted something else and that’s too bad, but our friendship stays intact and that’s just as important.’

GENERATIONS

At Too Pure they are used to quick changes. When the label only existed for about a year Stereolab and PJ Harvey, the acts they contracted first, started selling really well. Paul: ‘The whole PJ Harvey thing started to become so big, that in itself went way too fast. That’s when we just went from a little hobby-project in our spare time to a full-time job with the necessity of an office with people in it. Right after that it was real important that we didn’t become the “PJ Harvey”-label. Luckily we had the Stereolab record and Th’ Faith Healers, who were both very well received by the press and sold well.’ This first generation didn’t stay long with Too Pure. PJ Harvey was lured away by Island, Th’ Faith Healers called it quits right after the second record, because they couldn’t stand each other and Stereolab decided to sign a deal with Elektra worldwide and started their own label. The generation after that with Pram, Moonshake and Seefeel was less successful and stuck around longer because of it. But they also couldn’t stay forever, except for David every member left Moonshake they started Laika in the process, Seefeel were bought away by Warp and Pram had to be dropped, because they became too expensive. At the moment Too Pure has a new generation with Laika, Mouse on Mars, Seely, Long Fin Killie, Jack and Scala. Paul: ‘We were very disappointed about Seefeel leaving for Warp. I honestly still thank they stood a better chance for success if they had stayed with us. Mark Clifford, the main man in Seefeel has his own ideas and I think switching for Warp was a wrong decision, because they lost their heading doing that.’ Warp seems to be in the same waters as Too Pure, isn’t that strange? Paul: ‘I don’t know them personally, but sometimes we talk to them on the phone. They are interested in a lot of thinks we’re interested in, but obviously we are a label with a guitar background and they have a more electronic perspective. It is strange they got Broadcast under contract, we didn’t succeed in doing that. Although Warp takes away a few cherries from Too Pure now and then, Paul doesn’t hold a grudge against the label. Paul: ‘No, I look forward working with them in future. This summer we will do the Popkomm in Cologne, Jimi Tenor and Mouse on Mars are going to play there at one show, that’s going to be a lot of fun.’

HANG THE DEEJAY

Next to finding bands in a tight market, Too Pure had some tough times with promotion. Presenting a band like Jack for the English public was especially hard to do. Too Pure is still seen as a label that bring out very experimental music that is very hard to listen to. Paul: ‘Yeah listeners and the media still seem to think that. A Jack single couldn’t get played on daytime radio, because it was released by superexperimental Too Pure and at night it didn’t get played because it sounded to commercial to them and it was more something for during the day. As so often, we had fallen between two stools. Influential DJ’s like Steve Lamacq of BBC Radio 1 doesn’t seem to understand how much difference it makes to us if he plays a record or not. To us any form of presentation to the public is of lifesaving importance. A careless refusal can have disastrous consequences for us. He knows us long enough, but some people can show so little imagination to our situation. There are ways to go around the media, but you still need a certain amount of press, radio and television to get the attention a band deserves. Other ways are usually slower or reach a much smaller audience. What I am enthusiastic about are the possibilities of the Internet, we hope to use that more often in future.’

MONEY

How is the financial situation of Too Pure? How do you keep the money flowing? Paul: ‘It is very difficult, it is a constant struggle. That is one of the things that Richard found very difficult. Constantly there are things we want to do and bands who ask if they can do certain things. And almost every time you have to answer with: “We don’t have the money to do that.” Again and again you have to explain to bands that the sort of music we are trying to sell will only have some success if we work very very hard. Decisions like stopping with Pram and Moonshake are the hardest ones to make, but it is either that or the label will stop to exist.’ Did you ever think that starting your own label would involve this kind of work? Paul: ‘No, we never thought of it, but that’s mainly because we made a living out of this by accident. It never occurred to us that we also needed to think about contracts and financial business. It is all because of the false start we had. The success of PJ Harvey gave us the illusion we could release anything. Although the bands of that time have gone, we still sell quite a lot out of our backcatalog, but it’s getting really tight. We do have an office, four people and the bands and then you come to the conclusion that you have to sell a minimum amount of records every month to survive.’ Can you? Paul: ‘Last year things got very tight, we released only three new records and all bands went into the studio, so you have invested everything and there is no more money. Cashflow becomes your biggest enemy. And it’s getting really hard to stay in the market as a true independent label. There aren’t that many left, most of them are either started by major labels or bought and they have it a lot easier because they are funded by big money. But I wouldn’t want to have it any other way.’ Never felt the urge to get to the big money yourself? Paul: ‘Last year I had a discussion with Richard, because we needed money for an investment, but I couldn’t bear the thought. There are a lot of big fish interested in us I’m sure, but look at other labels. It gave me quite a scare when I heard that Big Cat was bought by Richard Bransons V2 and the whole label moved to the V2 building. I saw Big Cat always like a label we could compare ourselves with.’

4AD

But Too Pure isn’t all alone in the music business. Paul: ‘Since four years we have got a connection with 4AD. Ivo Watts is one of the partners in Too Pure, he got involved when we were going to record the PJ Harvey record “Dry”. The first time that Ivo met us was when we did the management for Moonshake. When Moonshake was dropped by Creation it didn’t seem logic we put them on our own little label and so we started asking at 4AD. Ivo was interested, but also realized that we had three other favorites of him under contract. That’s when we had a meeting with him just before a concert where PJ Harvey supported Moonshake and he told us that he wanted to join us if we didn’t mind. Out of respect and trust we said yes and in the end it turned out to be a very good decision. He didn’t interfere with our way of doing things, he lent us money if we needed some. Thanks to him we were able to contract Moonshake, record PJ Harvey’s first record and pay the rest of our roster. Next to that he was there to give advice and do all the boring stuff like the bookkeeping, that helped us a lot.’ It has been like that for four years, but there’s going to be a lot changes. Paul: ‘From this year on, we are going to work together with Beggars Banquet also. 4AD has a comparable relation with Beggars Banquet as we have with 4AD. The investment of Richard and the part of Too Pure Richard owned is now bought by Beggars Banquets Martin Mills. Beggars Banquet is now a big brother to us, who I trust, but if things do change in Too Pure then I made a big mistake. But don’t worry, I have confidence it.’

THE BOSS

Now Richard has quit, Paul is the only one who really has a say in things. Has your status become comparable to that of Ivo’s in 4AD? Paul: ‘At the moment I see it like that, Too Pure is my baby. But I find other peoples input and opinions also very important, what they think is important when deciding on things like contracting or letting bands go. And when people disagree you have to try and pull the people together and then it’s important to be very sure you’re right. I don’t know how that will go without Richard, because we had a very delicate balance. That’s probably why we worked with so few bands. In the new situation the final decisions will all rest on my shoulders and that will certainly result in a change of direction.’ Paul longs to the early days of the label, when it was fairly normal to just release on EP or single by a band, without yet worrying about the career of a band. Paul: ‘With contracts we’re responsible for the life of a band, if we just have to worry about a few singles then you don’t feel that pressure, there’s less risk and we can be a lot more experimental then we are now. Besides by doing that we can build a better relationship with a band by taking small steps at a time, then by contracting a band who hasn’t really released anything yet.’ In the world of electronic and dancemusic is that way of working quite normal. The artist decides himself when or where he releases his records and if a contract demands that he uses a certain name on a label, he just chooses a pseudonym. Paul: ‘I think that is very good, that way the label as well as the artist take a lot less risk and responsibilities weigh a lot less. But now you get all these strange situations where an artist like Roni Size releases all kinds of records under strange names, while the record company who has contracted him keeps on waiting for a whole album. I wouldn’t like to be in that position, but I think it’s good.’

PROUD

Just before Paul started Too Pure he played in a band himself. Paul: ‘It was really difficult giving that up, I didn’t think there would be something else I would have as much fun with. But soon I discovered that I got as much satisfaction seeing Th’ Faith Healers play, hear new songs, giving them a chance to record them and then release the records. I like dealing with other people’s creations and to work together with creative people. Usually they are a lot better in making music than I ever was.’ Looking back on six years of Too Pure, is there something you are really proud of? Paul: ‘Oh dear, that’s a tough one.’ But then he starts resolutely: ‘PJ Harvey, I’m very proud of what we have accomplished with PJ Harvey. Around the time of her first singles everything around was very “indie” and she was not. She was the only one with a mature sound. To us that was a big gamble. Looking back everyone is saying that it would be sure success, but at the time it wasn’t that clear. By now she has become one of the strongest women in popmusic. And I’m very proud of the first Moonshake, “Eva Luna” that was a true representation of how they were and still David and Margaret keep on making progressive, experimental and new music. It was a band with an excellent rhythmsection. Mig, the drummer, is very glad he’s no longer in the band, he had a real difficult job playing very complex rhythms in combination to the samples. And John Frenett, the bassist, is the only musician on this label with his own fanclub of people looking up to him. Of course I’m very proud of what we released of Seefeel. And lastly Long Fin Killie, like Richard said, that band holds the essence of what Too Pure is about. Oh well, I’m proud of almost anything we have done. Proud of what we have accomplished.’ What do you hope for the future? Paul: ‘I hope we keep releasing things we can be proud of and to be in search of new exciting things.’